Corey Payette and Dillan Chiblow prepare to premiere Indigi-queer drag musical Starwalker in East Van, where it's set

The writer-composer-director and star talk high heels, Indigenous roles, and Two Spirit culture

By Janet Smith

Starwalker lead Dillan Meighan Chiblow and writer-drector Corey Payette.

The Cultch presents Urban Ink and Raven Theatre’s Starwalker from February 16 to March 5 at the York Theatre

DIRECTOR, WRITER, AND composer Corey Payette and triple-threat actor Dillan Meighan Chiblow are getting ready to premiere what they believe to be the first Indigi-queer Two-Spirit drag musical.

For Payette, the talent behind acclaimed hit shows like Children of God and Sedna, the Urban Ink production marks a bit of a departure. The artist, whose ancestry is Mattagami First Nations with French Canadian and Irish, has rooted his other musicals in the past, whether that’s the painful residential-school history of Children of God or the 17th-century tale of Les Filles du Roi. But Starwalker is set right in the here and now, following the young, Two Spirit title character, who finds a home in East Van’s drag community—and the House of Borealis.

The production brings new pulsing dance rhythms to Payette’s pop-rock oeuvre (scroll to the bottom to hear showstopping number “Strut That Ass, Honey”). Upping that vibe is choreography by Van Vogue Jam’s Ralph Escamillan and a glam parade of outsized wigs, costumes, and size-12 heels by Alaia Hamer.

The title role was written for the Ojibway, Garden River, Ontario-raised Chiblow, who has starred in Payette’s genre-expanding, Indigenous-themed works like Children of God and Sedna.

Stir sat down with Payette and Chiblow, who has been part of the musical’s development workshops over the past few years, to talk about Two Spirit identity, the dearth of Indigenous roles in musicals, and the mind-blowing, ankle-straining dance numbers in Starwalker.

The charismatic friends had so much to say, we decided to share the whole conversation—which took place in The Cultch’s Green House rehearsal space, right in the heart of East Van where the musical is set.

STIR: Here we are in East Van and you've set this show in East Van. Why was that important for you?

CP: I've lived in East Van pretty much for as long as I’ve lived in on the West Coast now, for 14 years—always around Commercial Drive. And so this is really kind of a love letter to this community, especially to the queer people in this community. The Indigenous people in the community call this ‘East Van Rez’, and it really is, because there's just so many Indigenous people and a lot of, you know, subsidized housing for Indigenous people on the Drive. So it's just a place that has always felt like home to me. It felt like a really great place to set this modern day Indigi-queer love story.

STIR: Corey, did it take a while for you to get into the headspace of the music for this show or was that switch easy for you?

CP: I sort of feel like all of my music is really poppy. It's pretty happy and accessible, like contemporary musical theatre. But definitely that dance element, that club vibe, was a departure for me. I feel like if you listened to Children of God, and then all of a sudden you heard this, you’d be like ‘What is this?!’ But it also doesn't really feel like a huge departure for me. Sean [Baytun], the music director, was saying, ‘I can hear your chord progressions’, and the way that I write music still is very present in these songs. Because I'm like any composer where I have my little signatures—the kind of writing that I'm known for.

STIR: Dillan, singing it, what kind of vibe are you feeling? It's a bit different for you, too.

DC: I've been fortunate that I've gotten to sing a lot of Corey’s music: I was in Children of God and I was also in Sedna. And I feel very lucky as a singer, because me and Corey have pretty much the exact same range, it almost feels like it’s written perfectly for the sweet spots of where my voice is set. And it just feels great to get the chance to belt it out. I think really, you can kind of compare this vocal track to that of, like, Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar: there’s a lot of A's! So it's just nice to get the opportunity to have a big sing and a big vocal challenge, and to just kind of feel like it's customized to your voice.

CP: Dillan has been a part of every workshop that I've had. And right from the beginning, I was writing for his voice. Even a lot of the little conversations and developments over the years that we've had, I feel like all of those things have made their way into the show. It's going to have so much of his personality in it. So it's a real treat to get to watch Dillan play it, because it's not something that he's had to just step into for the last couple of weeks. It's something that has been years coming. So that's really exciting. 

I feel like we have this sort of brother relationship, with this person who grew up not that far from me. I grew up in Northern Ontario—you know, spending summers just south of Timmons and New Liskeard, and he's a couple hours down the road. And we didn't know that until we met years later! So it is sort of like all of the stories that I'm telling are the stories that he was also wanting to see.

STIR: You said this has been years in the process. Can you take me back to the origin of it? When did the seed kind of plant itself with you?

CP: The seed of the idea happened 10 years ago, when I just had the vision of wanting to see an Indigenous ‘11 o'clock number’, where everyone's just going on this journey with an Indigenous person, just cheering them on. But then I was working on Children of God, I was working on Les Filles, and setting work on this aside for shows that were, like, more ready to go. 

Then in 2019, The Musical Stage Company in Toronto approached me and said, ‘Hey, what's your next show that you're writing? We want to be a part of it.’ And I talked to them about this musical. From there, it just snowballed. So here we are three, four years later, after so many workshops with so many people—it's been a national process, really, with the pandemic and so many workshops on Zoom. It’s just such a great joy to be returning with this piece that’s totally different than anything that I've written before. And it's also been developed in a way that I've never developed a show before.

Chiblow’s Eddie Starwalker undergoes a total transformation.

STIR: Dillan, it sounds like you've been waiting for a part that speaks to this part of you. Have you ever had a chance at doing something similar to this?

DC: No, it just has never existed before! Indigenous people in musical theatre is something that is—even in this day and age—still relatively new. I've studied musical theatre twice at school, with my Master's degree [at the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland] and I have always looked for Indigenous content, and the only thing I could ever find [in musical theatre history] was Chief Sitting Bull in Annie Get Your Gun. And that show was very problematic, with a lot of really horribly written lyrics. And I'm like, ‘That's the only representation I'm seeing in a genre of storytelling that I've fallen in love with?’ 

After graduating and going off to find work, I remember—and I won't name the show—but I was auditioning and there was an Indigenous part in it, and they brought me in three times. And in the end it went to a non-Indigenous person. It was at that point where I thought ‘You know, I went to the right schools, I have all the skills, and I still can't be cast.’ 

Then, a few years later, my friend said, ‘You know, there's this musical that this person has written; you should go and put your name forward,’ and that's kind of how my relationship with Urban Ink and Corey started. I was so excited because, you know, with other musicals, you have to do all this research, but with me and most of his stories it’s like I don't have to do the research. That's my lived experience. That's my family stories. That's what I grew up with. And then, also being a queer person myself, who loves gay culture and queer culture, as a modern-day Indigenous person, this [show] is just a lot of things of who I am in my intersectionality as a multidisciplinary artist—it all just got to come together in this story.

And so I do feel very fortunate that I've gotten to play a couple of really big dream roles that Corey has written. And that if it wasn't for places like Urban Ink or Musical Stage or the Cultch, you know, supporting and producing this work, I don't know where my career would be. Professionally, in only musicals, I've only ever worked with Urban Ink in my career so far. And it's because of the work that they do and the stories that they're trying to tell.

"‘Two Spirit’ wasn't a term that you learned in school growing up... And so it wasn't until later that I started to really try to understand it more deeply."

STIR: Corey, your work grew out of this dearth of Indigenous parts and stories in musicals. As far as an entire musical based around a Two-Spirit story, is this, from what you can find, the only one that exists?

CP: Yes it is. And I went through a very similar experience of what Dillan’s talking about as an actor for many years. And that's what got me into writing: if those roles didn't exist for me, and I wasn't able to tell the stories that were important to me, then I needed to do it myself. That's sort of what started me on this journey of writing and creating….But I feel like this is like the oldest story ever told, because then there's also people like [Vancouver Cree-Saulteaux theatre artist] Margo Kane, who's faced that same thing where she when she was creating; she didn't see those people and that's why she was doing it. I feel like I'm in this long line of Indigenous artists who felt there's a gap, felt that there weren't the stories and said ‘Okay, I'm going to do it.’ 

I think what's really exciting about about Starwalker is it's so specific to this place, so specific to the Drive and our community here—and I'm so excited for more people to get a little bit of a peek into the uniqueness of this community. Because these things exist here, you know, in East Van: we have a drag scene, we have queer parties and culture. 

This is a love story. Sure, Star has gone through so much hardship in their life to get to this point, as so many Indigenous people have who are in this community. But this is about love and finding joy and being able to heal from all the things that have weighed us down as Indigenous people—things that we are continually coming up against in terms of that oppression. So this is a story to celebrate what it means to pull through and make a life for yourself. And, you know, celebrate everything that you are, no matter what people have told you that you should be ashamed of.

STIR: The other big appeal is the big drag performance numbers. And you just happen to have Ralph Escamillan here in Vancouver to choreograph it.

CP: That was also a very fortuitous meeting! Because I didn't know him before and I went to the Van Vogue Jam, which is our community partner. It was actually my massage therapist who said, ‘You know, you should go check this out.’ After the pandemic, they had started having these parties at the East Side Studios. And I showed up, and there was Ralph—and I can't even describe how much of an impact he had on me! We didn't even know each other. I had no idea what his whole deal was….And it's really been such a special collaboration on this show. And also because he has such a huge connection with the ballroom community, both in Vancouver and all across North America and around the world—he was just in the Philippines. I really feel like it has elevated the show to such a higher level than we ever could have imagined. I can't overstate this enough: this show is going to blow people away. 

The costumes, everything: it’s absolutely extraordinary. I always thought, when we were writing these past shows like Children of God, ‘These shows are big. They're big and they're big stories and they take a lot.’ And then we started to work on a drag queen show, with costume changes, dresses, wigs, corsets, and makeup—there’s even a costume transformation that happens on stage mid-song. What was I thinking? But it's honestly just so exciting to get to watch even just in rehearsal so far. I'm just in awe of the performers and what they're able to do on stage.

STIR: Dillan, tell me a little bit about that physical endurance that comes with that. I assume there are a lot of heels…

DC: Yes! [Laughs.] I kind of knew, ‘Okay, it's been a few years since I’ve done a show and I'm probably going to need to get my cardio up.’ So I started going to the gym well in advance and just kind of getting, you know, the physical body ready to do it. I think that’s made a big difference. The other thing is that, because Ralph has such a lived experience with multiple genres of dance, he has a lot of good tips, like ‘maintain the ankles’. Which you need with high heels!

CP: But it's also hilarious because it's like, on top of the really challenging music to sing, then also try doing it with a high kick and running around the stage. And now do it in heels, and now in a corset, and now in a wig. It's just like, how could we make this any more difficult? And if people thought four or five drag queens were exciting in Kinky Boots, imagine seeing all of our queens! It’s way more queens. Everyone's in drag!

[Turning to the drawings of elaborate costumes on the wall:] We have things like Clown Town Patrol. And then we have the the Jizz-ney Princess category, our ‘Disney Princess’ moment. And then there’s this gorgeous, red-dress moment. And a winter solstice finale—basically a big snow-globe extravaganza. 

STIR: What was your previous experience with drag?

DC: Well, I would go to the drag bars, and then eventually somebody showed me [RuPaul’s] Drag Race, where you can essentially go to the drag bar at home. [Laughs.]  I was influenced, like a lot of us are, by that TV show and the wonderful artists that they bring on there. And so I would be—I think the term is ‘a bedroom queen’, where, especially over the pandemic, there were so many episodes of Drag Race each week, and me and my husband would make a day out of it. We ordered all this makeup and we would just, for three hours before the show, pour ourselves a glass of wine and just start doing our makeup just to watch the show. Getting ready to watch the show took longer than watching the show! So it's like I started kind of learning in a self-taught way. So when I had to do the photoshoot for Starwalker, the makeup artists kept saying ‘You're so great. You're not flinching when you're getting things put on your eye.’ So, weirdly, it paid off. 

STIR: There are a lot of Two Spirit people who are really involved in the drag community here. How were you able to weave that cultural concept—Two Spirit—into the show?

CP: Well, I think when I started working on this, it was really about getting a chance to share all the things that I felt so deeply—you know, things I felt like were always a part of my life and my upbringing, but that I could never really pinpoint….Some of the elders that I know would be like, ‘Oh, well, you're Two Spirit’ and I was like, ‘Oh, what does that mean?’ And so part of that learning was just kind of understanding who I'd always been. I started to bring that into the character and bring that into Star’s journey of how they could start to understand their role and their gifts, and be able to share that with people. And so that was really the biggest part of it: I wanted for Star to share that journey with an audience, so that not only are they starting to figure out who they are, but also so that they were able to cheer them on in that discovery and in that celebration.

‘Two Spirit’ wasn't a term that you learned in school growing up—or even that was included in queer pamphlets or things like that. And so it wasn't until later that I started to really try to understand it more deeply. Because up until that point, it was just the thing that, you know, people had recognized in me. That this term is not more widely understood has a lot to do with colonization and the church and tons of other complex issues that Indigenous people face. It’s only now, in the last 10 years, that people are really starting to understand more broadly what Two Spirit means. But this is such an old, old way of being, and it was only due to colonization and due to the church and all of the traumas that were related to that, that Two Spirit people were forced out of communities. And so I think part of this story is as a reminder to Indigenous people, young and old, to say, ‘This is who we've always been, this has always been a part of our communities and this is a chance to see that’—and to see a young, contemporary Indigenous person's experience and see them on their journey to self acceptance.

DC: It’s not something I grew up with either. And I think when I was first introduced to it, too, I didn't really understand exactly what it meant. But then as I hear from other elders and language carriers, I am reminded that Anishinaabemowin language is gender neutral, naturally. We didn’t gender things. That’s a very colonial concept to gender things, gender roles and gender everything. As Anishinaabe people, we recognized multiple genders, long before first contact with the settlers. 

Then speaking of the drag performance in the show… Well, drag reveals who you are. And so Star really can't help but be who they are, and pick this way that they want to implement their drag; what they want to do with their art comes out and it just can't help but come from within them. And I think that's one of the big healing aspects for Star, to have that pulled out. I think it's really beautiful that the chosen family that Star stumbles upon, this House of Borealis, are the ones who support Star and really allow a platform for them. No one else in the House of Borealis is Indigenous, but they know how to love and they allow Star to be able to just bring that out from inside of themself.

CP: In the show, we talk about ‘multi-spirit queer’, ‘multi-spirit queen realness’, to recognize that even the term ‘Two Spirit’ doesn’t quite get it. I think that is the truth of the English language trying to translate Anishinaabemowin—that it doesn't actually land. There are still things that are lost in that translation, right? And so how we helped to kind of bridge that in the show is by sharing that it's really a spectrum. It’s really recognizing that we can exist in that grey area as much as we want. Seeing Star’s journey, that’s something that I think everyone can can get behind.  

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